“Out of My Mind” Director Amber Sealey on Casting Authenticity and Breaking Barriers

As the director of Disney+’s coming-of-age drama “Out of My Mind,” Amber Sealey was knee-deep for months in preproduction, as immersed in the creative process as she was in the technicalities that come with helming a film. But when it came to the early moments on set with first-time actress Phoebe-Rae Taylor, who plays a nonverbal sixth-grade dynamo with cerebral palsy, Sealey often found herself having a laugh with the young star.

“I would give her an earwig and we would cover it with her hair, and while we were filming, I would just whisper through the microphone, saying things to her that only she could hear,” Sealey said during a Zoom call in February. “And [there were] just all sorts of games and different exercises and things that I would do with her, that she was willing to do because she’s never done this before.”

The film, which also features Luke Kirby, Judith Light, Rosemarie DeWitt, and the voice of Jennifer Aniston, follows Taylor’s character, Melody Brooks, as she navigates middle school and turns her struggles into triumphs. 

Perhaps as a filmmaker, finding the balance of when to focus on the nitty-gritty and when to simply connect with the actors comes with experience. That’s something that Sealey, who nabbed a 2025 DGA Award for Outstanding Directorial Achievement in Children’s Programs for the film, has much of.  

Originally from England, raised in New Mexico, and now based in Los Angeles, Sealey studied theater and modern dance at the University of California, Santa Cruz, before returning to England to study drama at The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and the Central School of Speech and Drama. She spent years on screen as an actress before sinking her teeth into filmmaking.

“I was like, I’m not getting offered the kind of roles that I want to play, and that I know I can play, so I’m gonna make a film for myself,” Sealey said. “It was only on my third film that I was like, forget the acting part. I really want to focus on the writing and the directing, the storytelling.”

As a filmmaker, her credits include the nuanced true-crime drama “No Man of God” (2021), which explores the complex relationship between FBI analyst Bill Hagmaier and serial killer Ted Bundy in Bundy’s final years on death row. Prior to that, Sealey earned accolades for her films “No Light and No Land Anywhere” (2017), “How to Cheat” (2011), and “A Plus D” (2008).

“I realized this is what I was meant to do,” she said.

Sealey spoke with RogerEbert.com about her ups, downs, and roadblocks as a director, whether women face more obstacles in the industry, and her delight in discovering the perfect “Melody” in Phoebe-Rae Taylor.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Hannah Loesch: We watched “Out of My Mind” for the second time last night, and what stood out to me both times is I just cannot imagine anyone playing Melody better than Phoebe-Rae Taylor. Tell us about the casting process and how you knew that you found your Melody in her. It’s interesting because [“Out of My Mind”] is based on a book, so there are a lot of readers who would have already had an idea in their minds of who Melody was.

It was a really beautiful process, actually. Our casting directors, Kerry Barden and Paul Schnee, who live in New York, were such an integral part of the process. It wasn’t like a traditional casting process in that we knew we wanted to cast authentically. Meaning we wanted to cast somebody who had CP and used a wheelchair. So we not only reached out to agencies and management companies, but we also reached out to CP organizations and physical therapy offices, and people we knew who had CP.

And we were like, do you know somebody else who has CP? We were looking for a girl between the ages of 10 and 13 who has CP and has an interest in acting. And so it was a long process. I interviewed so many amazing kids around the globe. We just asked people to take a video with their iPhone and send in a little snippet of themselves. And so we had so many wonderful people sending in videos, but Phoebe was somebody who just really shone and stood out from the beginning. She was always somebody who I just couldn’t forget about. But I’m a very anal person, so I wanted to really make sure to watch every video and cover every base.

But I just kept coming back to Phoebe, and I was like, this is the girl. She lives in England, and I live in Los Angeles, and when we first Zoomed, she just charmed me so much. She was so funny and smart and obviously beautiful, but also kind and intelligent.

I remember we went to Sharon Draper, the woman who wrote the novel. Sharon has a daughter with cerebral palsy who’s nonverbal, so she sort of wrote it for her daughter. And so it was important to us that whoever was playing Melody be somebody that Sharon was on board with. And her words were something to the effect of, “Sign her up quickly before she gets too old to play the part.” So she was also completely on board with Phoebe, and [it was] one of the best choices I’ve ever made.

HL: How did you work with Phoebe to bring the character to life and really bring the heart to the character?

Well, I’m a personal believer that there really is something just to the structure of one’s face that lends itself to a certain type of expression and openness. It really sometimes is to do with, like, the set of your eyes. You know, there’s often lovely, lovely humans who are always playing the bad guy, and it’s just because of how their face looks and things like that, or how their face connects visually through the lens and the camera and through our TV screens.

We were just very lucky in terms of Phoebe’s own facial makeup. She just has that kind of face and those kinds of eyes that pull you in and make you want to connect, want to watch, and want to understand what she’s thinking.

But then on top of it, Phoebe was really willing to be open and try and work really hard. As we said, she’d never acted before. So for me, it was really fun as a director because I got to just do all the tools that I wanted to do. I think had she been more experienced, she maybe would have been like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, lady, I got it.” But because she hadn’t done it before, I was like, Great, I can do whatever I want! But again, it’s down to her willingness and her courage and her tenacity that made it all work.

CL: I feel like there’s a different philosophy from every director. A lot of them are super technically focused, and they’re thinking about the shots, and then there are people who are more focused on working with actors on [character development]. What do you think is your number one job as a director on set?

Part of what I love about directing is that you are thinking about so many things at once. So you are thinking about the technical aspect, you are thinking about the story, you’re thinking about how this shot works in terms of the edit in your head. You’re thinking about all the different elements—even like the background actors and everything—at the same time. And I love how many things a director gets to keep in their head at one time. That’s a big part of the job that I love. I’m a believer that if the performance and the story are captivating, the audience will forgive all the rest. So you can have not as interesting camera work or production design or costumes if the performance and the story are riveting. So to me, that’s the kind of number one meat of the sandwich that you need to have.

And obviously, we all want our films to be aesthetically beautiful and to be compelling and well composed. There’s so much that goes into the structure of a shot prior to filming it, so a lot of that technical stuff comes during the prep period, when you’re choosing your lenses and you’re choosing your camera and you’re making your shot list and you’re planning that all out.

Obviously, sometimes things change on the day. Often things change on the day. But for me, the heart of the production phase is really the story and the performance, and the technical kind of really comes in in prep, and then it really comes in in post.

Every director has their own special way of doing things. Whether you’re an outside in or inside out kind of director, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that the process that you have is what’s right for you.

CL: Do you think that your years as an actress have shaped who you are as a director? And does that influence the way that you communicate with actors at all? 

For sure. I was never a super well-known or successful actor, so I was often the day player. And I remember very well that feeling of walking on set and just having no idea who was who, what was what. No one would even tell me what was happening in the scene.

There were some amazing directors who were very different. For example, Andrea Arnold and Susanne Bier. I worked with them, they’re amazing. But a lot of directors just didn’t even acknowledge me. Like they would say hi and that was it. And then I was sort of left to do whatever I thought the scene needed, but they just didn’t give any notes, nothing. And so I had no concept of like, was I doing the right thing? Was I giving them what they wanted? I had no idea. And so that very much informs how I am on set with the actors. Whether they’re the number one on the call sheet or number 79, I really feel like everybody that is on set deserves to have an understanding of what’s going on, what’s happening in the scene, why are we doing this scene, what is it about, what are the expectations. And just for everybody on set to know that they’re wanted, and they’re needed, and they’re an important part of the process.

HL: Back to “Out of My Mind”—people with disabilities are still very underrepresented in Hollywood. I read a great article that you were interviewed for in Variety. And I think the statistic was 30 percent of viewers and purchasers of streaming and films are people with disabilities, but only about 5–7 percent of actors are people with disabilities. What do you think is the major barrier for change and progress in this area?

That’s such a great question. I mean, look, we’re in really hard times right now. We have an administration that openly mocks people with disabilities, and that’s accepted by many people. And so it’s a challenge. I think, historically, what has been part of the problem was the sort of “othering” of people with disabilities. Putting them in special ed classrooms, not having an integrated classroom where you have people who identify as having disabilities and people who don’t learning together and growing together and forming community together.

I think, historically, there’s been so much shame placed around the concept of having a disability or being neurodiverse. Luckily, I think that is changing. The younger generation now—I’m finding that these young kids are proud of their differences, their neurodiversities, their disabilities. And I think that is awesome. The younger generation is going to save us.

Having a disability or having a neurodiversity is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, I would argue that it’s something to be proud of. It often makes you aware or intelligent or creative in a different way than somebody who, say, doesn’t have that disability. So I think our differences make us more interesting, more intelligent, just potentially more creative. So I think the more we learn to get rid of the shame and be proud of our differences, whatever they are… One of the big messages of the film was that the onus is not on the person with a disability to make themselves heard. The onus is on us as the audience to stop and listen, and directing this film taught me so much.

I think prior to directing the film, had I met somebody who used AAC and was nonverbal, I would have been intimidated and I wouldn’t have known what to say or how to say hi. And now I know. I can say hi to them just like I would anybody else. And do I need to wait and be patient for them to take the time it takes to type in their response with either their eyes or their hands or however it is they use the technology? Yes, I do. I do need to learn how to be patient and wait and listen. But I think we’re all better off if we can all learn how to do that.

CL: I love the line in “Out of My Mind” to “presume competence.” There were so many years when people were hired to play people with disabilities who didn’t have disabilities. Why?

Yeah. That phrase, “presume competence,” is a big one in the disability community, and it was one that I learned when doing my research for the film. I was like, Oh my God, we’ve gotta have somebody say that in the film.

Dr. Katherine Ray says that to Mr. Dimming, the teacher. She says, “look, presume competence, Mr. Dimming. And I think you’ll be surprised.” And it’s true. I think when you do, when you are faced with somebody who talks differently, moves differently, communicates differently than you do, if you presume competence, you will be surprised and impressed.

HL: There’s another campaign that it reminds me of too, that went around recently. An amazing actress with Down syndrome, Madison Tevlin, said, “Assume I can, and I will.” You know, the only reason I can’t prove myself is because you’re assuming that I can’t.

I think this was done so beautifully in “Out of My Mind,” but even outside of casting, how do you think that storytelling can evolve to represent people with disabilities in a more authentic way?

Another good question. I mean, it’s hard and I wish I had answers for all this stuff. Sometimes I don’t know. I don’t know how to make the world a better place. I wish that we all knew more. I mean, I think it’s really just the more we learn to identify our own prejudices and try and work outside of them, the better we’ll be working with people, hiring people, working for people who don’t look like you, don’t talk like you, don’t sound like you, don’t communicate like you. All of that only makes the world richer and better.

So I think the more we can get outside the box of always looking to work with people who feel so familiar, the more authentic the storytelling will be. It’s not just actors with disabilities that should be represented on screen, although that certainly is true. It’s also directors and writers and producers with disabilities. It’s the people who get to decide what stories get funded and get told and make their way to the big screen. Ideally, the authenticity starts there.

CL: I want to get back to directing for a second. I’ve read in the past couple of years so many stories of directors—and hopefully it’s just a coincidence, but a lot of them are women, I’m not sure if that’s by design—but so many stories of women directors who are really struggling to get jobs. Like, they’re told they need to shadow a bunch of productions for free before they even get a paid position. And then even that might not lead to a job. They go to productions that they want to work with and they’re told if you want a directing job, make your own films and TV shows.

HL: And I’ve also heard stories of [studios] saying that you need to start as an actor. 

CL: Just all these different hoops that they have to jump through, even if they have industry experience, to get a director job, And it just blew my mind because I never thought of that before. And obviously you’re doing super well as a director now, but what did you experience at the beginning of your career? Did you have to overcome anything like that where it was difficult to even get your foot in the door?

That’s a great question too. I did all that stuff. I had to do all that stuff. I mean, I started out as an actor, so there you go. It wasn’t by design, but good to know that’s one of the things that I was supposed to do. But my start as a filmmaker did begin with me making my own film for myself to star in, because I was like, I’m not getting offered the kind of roles that I want to play and that I know I can play.

So I’m gonna make a film for myself. And my first two films, I did act in. And it was only on my third film that I was like, forget the acting part. I really want to focus on the writing and the directing, the storytelling. And so then I realized this is what I was meant to do. I mean, acting is my first love. I’ll always love it. But when I realized that I was better suited to being a director, it was a really beautiful experience of, like, the key finally fitting into the lock sort of thing. But yeah, I did a lot of shadowing. I did a lot of those programs. I don’t know why women have to prove themselves in that way so often. I mean, maybe I know why, but we all know the issues of sexism. I don’t know what the solution is. If you are brave enough to just say, “you know what, I’m going to do it my own way and I’m not going to do those things,” that’s awesome. I did those labs and I did that shadowing and I did that stuff because I felt like I did have stuff to learn. You know, I started out as an actor. I went to drama school. I got a master’s in theater, but my only film school was doing one of those programs—the DWW, Directing Workshop for Women, which is at AFI.

So prior to doing that, I did the Film Independent labs, and NBC labs, and a bunch of different programs. And not all of those programs are useful. But some of them are. I did glean a lot from those programs. It’s complicated—it’s not that I needed to do them, because I feel like there was a lot of knowledge that I already had. There was a lot of being sort of force-fed stuff that I was like, I already know this. But for that one little kernel of information that you didn’t know, it was useful to do. But yeah, there were years when I was just doing programs because I felt like those were notches on my belt that I had to prove myself in that way. You know, this industry is very sheep-like. If one person says, “okay, we’re all going this way,” everyone goes, “okay, great. We’re all going that way, even if it’s jumping off a cliff.” So I think for whatever reason, we’ve all decided that once you get those notches on your belt, okay, good. She gets the stamp of approval, you know? Unfortunately, women seem to have to get those approval stamps more than men do sometimes.

I mean, it’s so hard to generalize about everything. Everything is a case-by-case situation. 

CL: I like your perspective, because like you said, there is stuff that you can learn from all these things you have to do.

HL: And it’s always a good thing to always keep your mind open to learning.

CL: What do you wish that you knew when you first started out your career that you know now?

Oh, good question. I think when I was first starting out, I thought that there was this, like, special table at the top, and all the people up there were just geniuses who knew so much that I didn’t know. And to now realize, Oh, that doesn’t exist. I mean, certainly, there are geniuses in this industry. There are people who know more than I. But I do deserve a seat at the table.

And I think for so many years, I didn’t believe that I deserved a seat at the table, and I don’t know if that was just from my upbringing or growing up—my family didn’t have money when I was growing up—[or if it was because] I didn’t have anybody in the industry to help me, or my gender, or what. It could have been so many things. But I really thought there was this echelon of Hollywood that was idyllic and everyone was working at the top level of their abilities.

And it’s just not that way, you know? So I guess I would say to young people starting out is, to work hard. Certainly, you have stuff to learn. I didn’t know everything then that I know now. But also, there’s not this secret society of people who know a lot better than you or are much smarter, better, more deserving than you. You know, it’s possible for anyone, as long as you put in the time and the effort and have the talent.

HL: I think a lot of times people’s confidence gets worn down, but it’s based on something that’s not even real.

CL: Yeah, seriously. It’s like, Oh, I feel, I feel like I can’t have this, or I feel like I can’t do this as good as this person above you. And everybody probably feels that no matter where they’re at. 

Yeah. I mean, it might even be true. Look, there are certainly filmmakers who will always perform better than I do. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t also deserve a slice of the pie to tell the story the way I want to tell the story, because at the end of the day, it’s also all subjective.

There are so many films that some people love and other people hate. Pretty much every single movie that’s ever won an Oscar for Best Picture, you can find a good 25 to 30 percent of people that hated that movie, you know? So just because you might not do things as well as somebody else does them, or as quickly as somebody else does them, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t also be doing this job and participating in this industry.