Bunim/Murray CEO Says Hollywood’s Contraction Changed the Pitch for Reality TV

Many in Hollywood figured that the strikes would lead to an unscripted TV renaissance. But Julie Pizzi, president and CEO of Bunim/Murray and 51 Entertainment, says that reality TV pitching changed too with Hollywood’s contraction.

“A lot of the networks, platforms and cable channels have a certain amount of money they can spend in a year, and they want to put it toward something that’s going to be a landmark,” Pizzi told TheWrap’s Office With a View. “Everyone’s looking for ‘What’s our ‘Traitors’? What’s our ‘Squid Game,’ What’s going to put us on the map?’ ”

Creating hits was never an issue for Bunim/Murray, the Banijay-owned production company behind unscripted staples like “Keeping Up With the Kardashians,” “The Challenge” and “The Real World” franchises. Pizzi started her career at Bunim/Murray, spending 25 years developing and producing unscripted projects. She rose to CEO in 2021 and started overseeing “The Challenge” franchise. Then she added oversight of Banijay’s 51 Entertainment to her roster in 2023, which produces four iterations of Bravo’s “Below Deck” franchise.

But Pizzi, one of the few women to lead multiple production labels in the unscripted field, noted that even her companies faced the toll of the contraction. Some “fully developed” projects that had been sold ended up not receiving series orders, leaving her and the development team “scratching our heads.”

“We were fortunate to have enough shows that are franchises so still had those commissions, but we really do bank every year on selling new shows, and our whole business is based on growth,” Pizzi said. “You really have to continue to elevate the shows that are on there, and then really be looking two years forward.”

While navigating the changing waters of television development, Pizzi and the Bunim/Murray team have pivoted to approaching buyers directly with ideas tailored to their desires, rather than coming up with an idea and taking it to multiple potential platforms.

At the same time, Pizzi is also making the shows she sells. She oversees “The Challenge” franchise, which airs on MTV, CBS and Paramount+, and currently serves as executive producer on Season 2 of Hulu’s “Vanderpump Villa,” premiering Thursday, and Lifetime docuseries “Confessions of Octomom.”

“The biggest challenge isn’t getting networks excited about our show. It’s about really them finding the money to do it the way they want it done.” Pizzi said. “It’s really about budget, but I feel like there is an upturn right now.”

The interview that follows has been edited for length and clarity.

So now when things are kind of picking back up a little bit, are you feeling a little bit more optimistic?

I am. Obviously, I don’t have a purview into what the budgets actually look like for this year. But what I will say is that our development team has been working on really big shows. Most of our development right now that we’ve been doing is really per network. We’re talking to networks in advance and then really crafting what they’re looking for. It’s much more a point-of-purchase collaboration, where it’s like, “I’m only talking to you, tell me exactly what you need and then we’re going to go back and develop that for you.” As opposed to in the past, when we would come up with an idea and then we would try to sell it to five different places.

Bunim/Murray has worked on some of the biggest franchises in reality TV history, from “Real World” to “The Challenge,” which is still running strong. How do you keep a franchise like that running as Hollywood changes so rapidly?

“The Challenge” is the only format that we literally change every year. As long as I can remember working on this show, we do a brand new look, brand new theme, new country, new location, new tone, look, everything every single year. So even though mostly all episodes have an elimination or game, the lens in which we’re casting and the game in which we’re playing is constantly evolving. To MTV’s credit, that’s their ask every year. They realize this show is 41 seasons deep and the audience wants that. Sometimes we’ll bring back a format from a decade ago, but that show stays fresh just by the nature of it.

With other shows, we have our second season “The Never Ever Mets” (on OWN) starting to air, so it’s still a brand new format. We’re refreshing with a location and our characters, but we’re really just evolving the stories. And “Vanderpump Villa” Season 2 is delicious. We were able to implement things that we discovered in doing the first in a different location.

Your companies do the bulk of your shows for cable networks, as media companies start moves to offload those assets from their portfolios. How does something like SpinCo, or Hearst telling its staff they’ll likely sell their share of A+E Networks impact your approach to pitching?

Those are very top-level deals that are being done. But most of what you’re talking about is where the shows air. And then also, what is the budget and what are the profits of those entities. We’re content creators, so we’re making the programming. The one thing I will always say about Bunim/Murray is that most of our shows are usually the biggest shows on any of those cable platforms. We can give people a hit. So I look at shows like “Below Deck” and I look at “The Challenge,” “Married to Real Estate.” These are shows that are deep into seasons and that perform for all these platforms.

The networks are trying to figure out how they want to display what they own. Our job is to create good content for them. Wherever they decide to put it, however they decide to split it up, I don’t think it diminishes the value of those shows. If anything, I think it creates opportunities for those shows to be showcased further in different ways.

OWN is airing Season 2 of “The Never Ever Mets,” bringing a new set of couples who’ve never met in person before into a house in LA. How did you work to have production here as so much of the reality TV industry moves their productions to other states or overseas?

There is a difference. “Never Ever Mets” is in a very contained environment. It’s a house show. It’s very low to the ground. When you scale a show that needs stunts and you know you need an art department full time, you’re looking at 150 to 200 people. That’s where it becomes very hard to produce a show here, just because that can become really expensive in Los Angeles. Not because of the people, but because all those people need vehicles and hotels and per diem and, in other parts of the world, those expenses are less.

What needs to happen so reality TV productions can return to California? What can industry leaders do to help make it happen?

For some reason, there was a complete carve-out that unscripted shows don’t have the benefit of any of those (tax) rebates, and that does feel personal. That said, I do believe if there was a way that it could be more cost-efficient to shoot in L.A., I would assume that people would. We shoot a few shows here.

You are prepping for the launch of Season 2 of “Vanderpump Villa” with Lisa Vanderpump. How did you approach getting that show on Hulu?

Lisa and I had met about another project years ago, and then we reconnected and we pitched her this idea and we developed it together. The show really is her vision. And that is because she was very much a part of the creative process, and then when we had the opportunity to take it out Hulu just fell in love with it.

It’s really taking that [“Vanderpump Rules”] concept and then merging it with our “Real World” DNA and that just blossoms into “Vanderpump Villa.” The cast is living together. They don’t really know each other when they move in. To live in a villa and then work, it’s an extension of what we started doing 35 years ago and it continues to be as entertaining as you think it would be because people getting to know each other always comes with romance, clashes, drama and a lot of comedy.

The “Below Deck” franchise continues to grow, and it seems like Captain Jason from “Down Under” is helping anchor an even bigger spotlight for the shows as a companion to the uber-successful “Housewives” franchise. Why do you think those shows have stood out so much in a crowded reality space?

It really is so good. I inherited it when we took over 51 about 18 months ago and am just immersing myself into the world. We have incredibly dedicated captains, the showrunners and the teams that work on these shows have worked on them for a very long time and they’re so committed to it. We actually have different network executives for each of the franchises too and they know it so well. And it’s the casting too. Every year they bring in some new people and then we have some returners. I think that’s a really smart strategy, because the audience does, especially the Bravo audience, really fall in love with characters.

The other thing, which is very similar to “The Challenge,” is that every season we’re looking at a new location. That is part of “Below Deck.” Sure, they revisit places, but even “Med” mostly focuses on ports in the Mediterranean. Being able to see a new world every season and then also new guests, new cast working on the boat.

And one thing that actually even surprised me going into that franchise is how authentic the stories are. They’re not producing the cast. The first time I went on the boat, I’m like, “This is actually a real job.”

You inherited “Below Deck” recently and, like any long-running franchise, there are controversies and headlines that come with them. How did putting the “Below Deck” franchise into your umbrella impact the way production is done on these shows?

“Real World” was on the air for 30+ seasons. “The Challenge” 40+ seasons. We know a thing or two about what can go wrong, and we’ve also learned a lot about how put policy in place to create a safe environment for our cast and crew. So we did work closely right out of the gate with NBC to put policy on paper for the show. And by the way, a lot of this already existed, it just wasn’t papered.

And what we do on “The Challenge” as well, we do a meeting with the crew and then we do a meeting with the cast before we even start rolling cameras. We take respect in the workplace and sexual harassment trainings. We’re very serious about it.

You have a project anchored by Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird in development. How does leveraging talent help in getting shows greenlit?

I do think when you have women like Megan and Sue, it does matter. Especially because they’re willing to sort of participate in the creative process. There are some shows that people are EPs of, and then there are the shows that they’re deep in the production process. You see that on “Vanderpump,” Lisa is deep in that show. When we did “Buddy Games” with Josh Duhamel (at CBS), he was not a passive EP. He was in the games, testing the challenges.

When you have somebody who’s really passionate about a subject, it does make a difference. But that said, I don’t always know that an attachment in name alone will get something to the finish line, passion and commitment does.

Who or what are you excited to work on next?

We have some of the most exciting game formats right now. We’re working directly with buyers on them and I can take no credit for them, because it’s really this incredible development team. They are really next level. There have been shows that have really moved the meter in the last year. Everyone was talking about how big certain shows were — “Traitors,” “Squid Game,” “Beast Games” and all of that. I feel like we have stuff that sort of competes with those, not the budget, but with the creativity and the shock value.

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