The SPIN Interview: Youssou N’Dour

Youssou N’Dour’s voice is one of the wonders of music, a soaring bird that has taken him around the globe from his native Dakar, Senegal, as a beloved, ever-visionary arts ambassador for more than four decades.

But there’s another voice of note on one song from his new album, Eclairer le Monde (Light the World), leading a chorus on “On L’a Fait! (We Did It!)”—Nelson N’Dour, 12, making his recording debut.

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“I have a lot of kids,” the dad says, laughing. “And never [have] one of my kids tried to sing or do something with music. And during these last three years, we could feel he loves music.” Nelson is Youssou’s next-to-youngest. 

The pride shines as he speaks by video from his Dakar home, talking some in English and some in French, with translation as needed by his associate Patrick Tucker. The song his son sings on is a tribute to football—our soccer. Nelson is a big fan. “It’s really an honor for me to have my son singing with me.” 

In some ways Youssou N’Dour is a parental figure to generations of African musicians. Born in 1959, just as Senegal was becoming independent from France, he has helped shape the evolution of the nation’s sense of itself.

He was just 16 when he joined the popular Star Band, which specialized in the Afro-Cuban styles that dominated Dakar clubs, and then fronted the break-away Étoile de Dakar, mixing in traditional rhythms and instruments, with vocals largely in the indigenous Wolof language. The hybrid style, known as mbalax, helped fuel a wave of national pride and N’Dour rose as a cultural leader alongside such others as Baaba Maal and Touré Kunda.

His global breakthrough came in the mid-1980s, first in partnership with Peter Gabriel. That’s him, singing in Wolof, on “In Your Eyes” (yes, the song blasting from John Cusack’s boombox in Cameron Crowe’s movie Say Anything…). In 1988, N’Dour joined Gabriel, Bruce Springsteen, Sting, and Tracy Chapman as the core musicians on Amnesty International’s massive “Human Rights Now!” tour. 

He remains an inspiration to young musicians, including Nigeria’s Burna Boy, who had him sing on the 2020 hit “Level Up (Twice as Tall).” His new album was produced and co-written by Michael League, leader and bassist of the U.S. jazz-rock band Snarky Puppy, with an international roster of musicians including co-producer Weedie Braimah, the Ghana-born, U.S. raised master of the West African djembe drum.

“I was looking for something completely new,” Youssou says of working with League. “Not the usual mbalax we do, not an album that we usually produce in Senegal. Something that had a new spirit to it.”

I spoke with N’Dour on the eve of the album’s release and the start of an international tour, including dates at the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival on April 25, Kings Theatre in Brooklyn on April 27 and the Music Center at Strathmore in North Bethesda, Maryland, on April 29. 

Another leap came in 1994 when he and singer-rapper Neneh Cherry teamed for the global hit “7 Seconds.” He won the Best Contemporary World Music Album Grammy for 2004’s Egypt, inspired by North African Islamic sounds and themes. An acclaimed 2007 documentary, Retour a Gorée (Return to Gorée), followed him on a trip from the island of Gorée, just off the coast of Dakar, to trace the paths and the music of countless Africans held on the island before being sent to slavery. And in 2013 he became the first African artist awarded the prestigious Polar Music Prize. A brief bid to run for Senegalese president in the early 2010s failed, but he was appointed Minister of Culture and Tourism. 

What was your life like when you were Nelson’s age?

I was a bit confused at that age. At that time my dad wanted me to stay in school and I wanted to do music. So it was confusing and it was a bit disturbing. On one hand my dad was strict and wanted me to go to school and study. On the other hand I wanted to be a musician and follow my mother’s side of the family’s traditional singing.

My mother’s a great singer. She was singing around all the traditional things, when a baby’s born or a marriage, singing about the importance of family and everything. The mothers of the family, they were the storytellers, the first singers. They were the ones who were invited to ceremonies to sing of the family lineages, during marriages, during childbirth, christenings. They were the ones who called to a new lineage of the families from ancestors to the present day. 

When you were born, Senegal wasn’t an independent country yet. How much impact was that on your young life?

I can’t speak much about what it was, because I was too young to understand. But my generation was born into independence and we knew ourselves as an independent country. There was a lot more being expected of us as Senegalese. The national fever was very active at that time. And my dad, peace to his soul, was very active in the fight for independence. He actually fought for independence in Dakar.

What other music were you hearing when you were young? 

A lot of Cuban music, also soul music. And later maybe reggae music. But, you know, it was really Cuban, Latino music that was very, very, very popular. Orchestra Broadway, Aragon, Celia Cruz. That really was the music I listened to. And a little bit of music coming from outside of Senegal—Nigeria, Fela, Manu Dibango, Miriam Makeba. They were secondhand, but the first things were Cuban music. 

You weren’t much older than Nelson is now when you started singing professionally. It seems there were a lot of new ideas, new combinations. What was your part in that?

The first thing was to make sure to keep the Cuban music, but make sure we were trying to use the local Wolof music. I remember telling my percussion player, “Okay, don’t use the congas, but use the Senegalese drum.” We know expression is more important than the instruments. But I was really trying to have the sound look like what I was looking for.

And that’s the mbalax music that you created, correct?

Let’s say I really developed it. It was something coming from our tradition and a lot of people like the band Xalam 2 were doing mbalax. But I was the one who came to promote it and bring it to different parts.

To someone who doesn’t know that music, what would describe it?

The language. Mbalax music is [their] first language. And it’s a rhythm. The rhythm doesn’t look like standard rhythm. It’s something we know, we hear, because we are Senegalese. But it’s something sometimes you can say, “Oh, they’re playing against the rhythm,” right? But the downbeat is in the subconsciousness, because mbalax doesn’t have that downbeat, one to count on. And that’s how they play. [To] someone who doesn’t know mbalax, [they] might think that they are playing against the rhythm. Whereas they subconsciously know where they start from and where the downbeat is for them. So that was very important for me. And during that phase of my career I had a chance to meet a lot of other artists and a lot of other influences. And we managed to come together with what today is known as world music. 

So I had my mbalax music with me, which is very important to me. I still maintain it. And then we fused it with influences from other musicians from different parts of the world, then created what is today called world music.

Connecting with Peter Gabriel was a big break. You were still in your twenties then. Very quickly you took to a global stage. How do you feel your role changed with that? 

I felt like an ambassador from Africa to join this connection we call world music. And I saw the potential of this creation and this way to do music for the world. I was really concerned that I’m one Senegalese who joined the world team. You can meet someone like Peter Gabriel or Paul Simon, you can meet Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. It was like playing a role, like an ambassador from Africa, representing Africa. And the other persons that I mentioned, they were very important, but they were coming from different parts—Pakistan, pop music, Paul Simon, Ryuichi Sakamoto. You know, there’s  a movement. I was feeling like I was representing the continent.

It doesn’t feel like you’ve ever lost where you are from, which is clear on the new album. Could you talk about Dakar and Senegal today? What’s it like now?

Like the world over, Senegal demographically has increased greatly [from] when I was growing up. So that’s one. And as more people are born into the world, our timespan gets shorter. Our attention span gets shorter. You remember, when I was growing up we used to do music for like 10 minutes. Now that’s not the case. Now it’s more like three minutes, and that’s it. Or TikTok songs. [laughs] Thirty seconds. And a lot of things have changed over time. Now you have less time to do a lot of things. And it’s become a bit of a confusion for some of us who are used to taking time to do things the right way. 

Do you ever go back and listen to the Star Band or Étoile recordings?

I’ve been doing a lot of that recently.

For a start, the sound of my voice has changed a little bit, which comes [with aging]. But whenever I listen to myself from those ages, I’m proud of myself because I was young, but there’s no music of mine that I listen to and I’m like, “Nah, I wish I didn’t do that.” Everything that I’ve listened to so far, I’m proud of what I did, even at that age.

You sing in three languages. On the new album, English is the least sung, so many people don’t really know what you’re saying. Does that matter to you? 

I approach it like the person I am, because for me, music is the first language. It’s about the melody and the arrangement, the musicality of it all. But it’s just like who I am. I live in Senegal. I speak Wolof most of the time. French here. English, a little bit of everything. But like I said, music is my first language, and I like my music to represent me. We try as much as we can so that the music speaks to a larger audience, and not necessarily the language in which the song or lyrics are being sung. But the music should speak for itself.

The new album is titled Eclairer le Monde — Light the World. And the first song is titled “Tout Pour Briller” which means “Everything to Shine.” Is that how you see your role in life?

It comes from a place where we went though COVID and a lot of things happened in the world that we are still going through, a lot of extremes, people pulling to different extremes. And we’ve seen of late the success of African music abroad. But then, for me, the creation was more of, we need to look within ourselves and let a light shine from [within] us. The album was not just coming from these dark places, but also it’s now time to start to rebrand ourselves. And it is my role as an artist to say, “Hey, there’s a light. We need to get back to being the happy people that we were.” 

We bring back the joy and peace and happiness in the world, that the world shared, has always shared.

The video for the song “Noflaay” shows a lot of scenes of happy people. In Dakar?

It shows life not in a modern city, but not in a village either. It’s like in between, normal daily life of people just going about their activities.

Do you see yourself as a leader, responsible for a community, for the culture? 

My voice has always served that purpose. And it is my duty as an artist to speak of our society, our daily life, our daily struggles, our dealing with success and triumphs and just show light on what’s happening.

It is my role as an artist to say, “Hey, there’s a light. We need to get back to being the happy people that we were.” 

Some of the musicians on the album have been with you a long time, like percussionists Mbaye Dieye Faye and Thio Mbaye, tama player Assane Thiam, guitarist Tapha Gaye.

These are people with whom I grew up. We’ve been friends for a long time. We actually formed a band together for over 40 years. We have had a long relationship. And when I came to Michael [League] for the album project, we chose to get other musicians that are also good at what they do, not necessarily modern musicians, in a sense, but people who are good at what they do. That’s how we came up with the balafon player [Djiby Diabate], the other instruments. Because Michael and I wanted to have something that is pure. So we went about getting musicians from different areas to complete this album. That’s how Weedie came on board. And we had the balafon player and kora player [Momi Maiga], just to make sure we have an album of few musicians, musical talents. I was honored to have Michael on the bass. 

Do you keep in touch with some of the people you have worked with through the years? 

We’ve always maintained strong relationships, even after working on our collaborations. Like Peter Gabriel, we spoke a few days ago, which was on his birthday. And he loved the [new] album. He’s listening to it. And Neneh Cherry and I speak every now and then. I haven’t heard from Paul Simon in a long while. But every now and then, when we have stuff, we exchange ideas musically. We exchange sounds to hear, back and forth.

What are your thoughts about the newer generation of African artists, such as Burna Boy, Sampa the Great, and others who are making an impact globally? Do you feel you played a role in all of this? 

Something I’ve always tried to do is serve as a source for the younger generation, because if there is no source, there can’t be something new. Afrobeats has a source from somewhere, and we have served as that source, even as Manu Dibango and Fela Kuti served as a source for others and inspired others. And even this album that is out now, it will also serve as a source for them so that they know, “Okay, we are doing this more than urban music, but it comes from somewhere.” And that’s what we try to do and keep doing for them. 

So it’s not so much new, but a continuation and evolution?

Yes. Evolution. Continuation.

Do you like what you’re hearing in contemporary African music? Who are some of the artists you love most?

Yeah, I love it. Oh, Burna Boy’s my son. He is very talented and I have had the occasion to work with him. Also other singers from Nigeria, from Congo, they’re very talented. Burna Boy is my son, my favorite. 

You recorded the new album in a small town in Catalonia at Michael League’s studio. Why there?

It was just circumstances that came together, because when the time came and Michael was available and I was available, the only space we had was the studio in Catalonia in Spain. And I also didn’t want to do something just like what I’ve always done in Dakar. And I didn’t want to do it in an ultra-modern city like Madrid or New York or Paris. And Weedie just happened to be available at the time. That was how the whole thing happened. And it was perfect.

The next-to-last song on the album has an English title, simply “Say Thank You,” which you’ve described as an ode to all mothers. Is that you reminding yourself, or us, to be grateful?

I think it goes both ways. We are who we are because of what we receive from other people. Also, we are because of what we gave out to other people. So it goes both ways for me, and that is the essence of that song.

There is a spiritual, religious, aspect to your music. It seems that you balance your message, the world and God.

For me it’s about music expression, foremost, the arrangement of music, musicality of the songs. And then there are the lyrics. It is more of who I am. Because I live in Senegal, I go about life in Senegal. There’s a huge spiritual part of it. Not like being completely or excessively about it, but I am spiritual. And I think what I do and everything I try to do is show that, “Okay, there is the artist, the musician, and there is this part of me that is also spiritual.” I try to balance it out, even in my music.

The last song, “Ahmadou Bamba,” is a tribute to a Sufi saint. It seems that you’re bringing the album full circle from the beginning, where you want all to shine.

That’s what life is, and that’s what the world is. You have to have all of these things to make the world so you have life in the world. And not forgetting that we are all spiritual beings in as much as we live our daily lives. We also have that spiritual link. And that’s what the album is all about. 

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